Serious Change My Mind Number 1

25-03-2018, 11:05 AM

Teratronic Wrote: So if the government decides to murder large percentages of the population, your belief is that because it is the government, and it has this authority, that it is okay?

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I agree with you that no shootings should happen, but I don't think you know the process of getting a gun in America.

No.

That is the cold fact how the reality is. Hell no I'd like it to be like it but that's the way I see it as I've lived 20 years in the world.

I also do not know how to get a fire arm in your country nor do I know how to get one in my country.

The image I got is that a police (as an example of ) is the one that in our country (Finland) can come to you and ask you to strip from drugs, firearms etcc. as they got the authority, we can't say No to them, no matter if we own a gun or not.

We - The citizens of Finland - we can't pull a gun out to protect ourselves. (unless ofc. it's a legal one and you're in trouble - You may shoot another one if you're in a dangerous situation which required it.)
/ Why wouldn't an illegal gun work for that too but then there's going to be questions how you managed to get in touch with one.


The police officer will battery and assault us if we carry a gun as an example just to make us "harmless" and to "protect and serve", what ever they believe they're doing.
(talking about regular people on the street going to buy groceries which the cops patrol 24/7 drivin')

Police works for and to the government.

A cop doesn't go to jail for 12/ 25 years of his life because he shot a head open to death - A normal (Regular) person as I liked to call a Citizen will go (must) and will sit in the jail for 12 years (Murder, 25 to life as yours is in the US) if you can't prove that you were self-defensing yourself and your attempt was to end ones life.

A cop is always in that position - Protected from the fear of going to jail because of shooting a one which IMO is really sick as they may gain some kind of pleasure from such a cruel act :/
The psychological studies of people should be much more inspected/ABLE when picking up people from the citizens to protect and serve us the citizens, not just by lookin' at the grades or w/E they're after for.

Morally You can shoot the neighbour pulling out a legal or an illegal gun to your sisters head - But what if you can't prove this has for real happened which nowadays is so fucked up what are the guns for if they can't be used and imo. this is the only situation where a gun could be useful and it doesn't need to end a life it may just injury ones i.e Hand, Wrist or what ever just to deny the damage that could happen the next second.

This is how fucked up the system is but a cop can always kill without consequence- so can the military, that's what they're made for.
At least the military section .. Which also should work only to protect us but protect from what?

That's the only thing we need the key for.



I don't know about any laws then if there's a war going on.

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25-03-2018, 11:12 AM

zmart Wrote: good point, I would shoot police officer if they want my guns.

This is the greatest thing to do to ruin your own life for ever mate - Where I come from.
The idea is real but there's the authority which denies us to do so - so we really can't do such a thing because we'd be transported to a cell where you must be 23hours a day with a few meals a day and can't exit or really even exist.

I believe that allowing citizens, or even more specific humans, the right to bear arms is a good thing. It does however come with repercussions like with these mass shootings.
I don't know all the specific laws in each state as they vary but I believe we should really be more thorough on who we give guns. I don't know if any state does this but maybe require some kind of psychological testing along with the usual background check to ensure that the person isn't mentally unstable.

I do believe that the government kind of fucked itself over with the second amendment.
As I told zmart, there will always be illegal guns in circulation. Whether it's from before certain guns were made illegal, self-made, or imported.
The only way that the government would be able to "sort" this is to forcibly take the weapons away from every single citizen or household. However that would impede on the second amendment and would be taking away the right to bear arms.
This may cause shootings all across the country as the government attempts to take all the weapons away from it's people.
Then again, even if the government did succeed in taking all the weapons, people would just end up making more themselves or try to get them imported. At that point though, guns would have been made illegal and anyone found with a gun would be arrested or maybe even shot on sight.
And finally ofc if the government impedes on any of the amendments, the people will start to lose their faith in the government possibly causing it to topple.

I know I probably went off topic but I like to theorize what would happen if these situations arise.
I'm not really trying to change your mind but more so just showing what could happen.

25-03-2018, 11:26 AM

zmart Wrote: Have they already improved the restriction on gun ownership because of there still a lot of mass shooting which the gun is legally obtained?

According to that database you gave me earlier, there have only been 73 mass shootings (which is defined as a shooting that kills 4 or more people) since 1982. Now that is still 73 too high I agree, but when you look at 2015 , there were 13000 murders just in one year.
Source(I am on my mobile so I don't have access to the tools)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/201...m_2015.xls

For a person to buy a gun in the US, they have to be a US citizen, they have to pass an extensive background check, and you used to have to be 18 years old, which I believe is getting raised to 21 now. If you don't pass that background check you cannot buy a gun.

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25-03-2018, 11:36 AM

Altoids Wrote: I believe that allowing citizens, or even more specific humans, the right to bear arms is a good thing. It does however come with repercussions like with these mass shootings.
I don't know all the specific laws in each state as they vary but I believe we should really be more thorough on who we give guns. I don't know if any state does this but maybe require some kind of psychological testing along with the usual background check to ensure that the person isn't mentally unstable.

I do believe that the government kind of fucked itself over with the second amendment.
As I told zmart, there will always be illegal guns in circulation. Whether it's from before certain guns were made illegal, self-made, or imported.
The only way that the government would be able to "sort" this is to forcibly take the weapons away from every single citizen or household. However that would impede on the second amendment and would be taking away the right to bear arms.
This may cause shootings all across the country as the government attempts to take all the weapons away from it's people.
Then again, even if the government did succeed in taking all the weapons, people would just end up making more themselves or try to get them imported. At that point though, guns would have been made illegal and anyone found with a gun would be arrested or maybe even shot on sight.
And finally ofc if the government impedes on any of the amendments, the people will start to lose their faith in the government possibly causing it to topple.

I know I probably went off topic but I like to theorize what would happen if these situations arise.

You would agree though, that taking away guns completely would only harm the citizens, because if a criminal wants to obtain a gun, they would find a way to obtain it?

25-03-2018, 11:14 AM

Teratronic Wrote: You are getting some sources which is good, but you arent fully reading it.
"
The ATF data is not perfect, of course. A 2009 Congressional Research Service report notes that there is variation in how different jurisdictions recover and report on crime guns, that many crime guns can't be traced, and that guns recovered by police may be not be representative of the total universe of guns used by criminals"
And.
"One important thing to note is that the average time between when a gun is purchased and when it's used in a crime is over 10 years. This means that people aren't typically buying in one place and then immediately driving across state lines to commit a crime"

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The military can't go off on a movement to start taking possession of guns without the approval of Congress. They can't take your gun that you bought legally, they also can't search your possessions without any probable cause to do so.

Okay so this is different comparing the countries in .. America and Finland .

When you commit a crime, even the smallest one you're asked to show off your pockets and everything, the police officer will take it all and by the laws w/E you may get back you will but not the illegal items. and you're held in a small space for x amount of days until you commit the crime or they ask you to commit things that may never even been happened which is sick to the human nature.

In Finland the GOV can take your gun just by a snap o' fingers no matter if it's legal or illegal all they have to do is to check if you're a risk to the community - Being on drugs or alcohol is just enough. which could be pretty much the same as creating the cause to do things to control you without your own permission which feels damn bad.

The Police can't come to my house either without a search warrant to inspect what I might have in my apartment but if I look like a risk it doesn't take long for them to do so or maybe they even do it hidden from us so they just trace what's going on for real in the worlds. which doesn't sound honest at all that they can just create a problem which doesn't even exist.


The stuff I might write is quickly created from my mind and I write another language that I'm familiar with so I hope you understand my beliefs and what I'm trying to say.
I don't really do facts to - Please try to keep these texts as valid or invalid opinions by Aeux. Google is the tool that helps you to check if you like to play with Facts.


I've been skipping much of what you wrote I'll definitely check back on later with time.

Great thread, OP.

25-03-2018, 11:39 AM

Teratronic Wrote: According to that database you gave me earlier, there have only been 73 mass shootings (which is defined as a shooting that kills 4 or more people) since 1982. Now that is still 73 too high I agree, but when you look at 2015 , there were 13000 murders just in one year.
Source(I am on my mobile so I don't have access to the tools)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/201...m_2015.xls

For a person to buy a gun in the US, they have to be a US citizen, they have to pass an extensive background check, and you used to have to be 18 years old, which I believe is getting raised to 21 now. If you don't pass that background check you cannot buy a gun.

---

You would agree though, that taking away guns completely would only harm the citizens, because if a criminal wants to obtain a gun, they would find a way to obtain it?

It's not like it would cripple criminals completely from getting guns but it would surely help reduce these issues.
Yes, criminals will always try to find ways to obtain new guns, but if the government were to take away weapons and were to cease the manufacturing of parts and guns altogether, it would become a bit harder for them to obtain them or the properparts to craft them. Slow them down if you will.

Will citizens be left unprotected? In terms of guns, yes. Will there still be killings? Yes, of course. Even if guns didn't exist at all, people would still get killed by other means. But I feel it would dramatically decrease the amount of killings and injuries that we accumulate from having guns available to the public.

25-03-2018, 11:33 AM

Aeux Wrote: No.

That is the cold fact how the reality is. Hell no I'd like it to be like it but that's the way I see it as I've lived 20 years in the world.

I also do not know how to get a fire arm in your country nor do I know how to get one in my country.

The image I got is that a police (as an example of ) is the one that in our country (Finland) can come to you and ask you to strip from drugs, firearms etcc. as they got the authority, we can't say No to them, no matter if we own a gun or not.

We - The citizens of Finland - we can't pull a gun out to protect ourselves. (unless ofc. it's a legal one and you're in trouble - You may shoot another one if you're in a dangerous situation which required it.)
/ Why wouldn't an illegal gun work for that too but then there's going to be questions how you managed to get in touch with one.


The police officer will battery and assault us if we carry a gun as an example just to make us "harmless" and to "protect and serve", what ever they believe they're doing.
(talking about regular people on the street going to buy groceries which the cops patrol 24/7 drivin')

Police works for and to the government.

A cop doesn't go to jail for 12/ 25 years of his life because he shot a head open to death - A normal (Regular) person as I liked to call a Citizen will go (must) and will sit in the jail for 12 years (Murder, 25 to life as yours is in the US) if you can't prove that you were self-defensing yourself and your attempt was to end ones life.

A cop is always in that position - Protected from the fear of going to jail because of shooting a one which IMO is really sick as they may gain some kind of pleasure from such a cruel act :/
The psychological studies of people should be much more inspected/ABLE when picking up people from the citizens to protect and serve us the citizens, not just by lookin' at the grades or w/E they're after for.

Morally You can shoot the neighbour pulling out a legal or an illegal gun to your sisters head - But what if you can't prove this has for real happened which nowadays is so fucked up what are the guns for if they can't be used and imo. this is the only situation where a gun could be useful and it doesn't need to end a life it may just injury ones i.e Hand, Wrist or what ever just to deny the damage that could happen the next second.

This is how fucked up the system is but a cop can always kill without consequence- so can the military, that's what they're made for.
At least the military section .. Which also should work only to protect us but protect from what?

That's the only thing we need the key for.



I don't know about any laws then if there's a war going on.

---

This is the greatest thing to do to ruin your own life for ever mate - Where I come from.
The idea is real but there's the authority which denies us to do so - so we really can't do such a thing because we'd be transported to a cell where you must be 23hours a day with a few meals a day and can't exit or really even exist.

The Bill of Rights exists so that each citizen has their rights protected. Unfortunately not every country, such as Finland as it sounds, has a document similar to America's. Like I said before, a cop can't search someone without probable cause. I would also like to say that you should not shoot a cop for trying to take your gun, depending on the circumstance. For example lets say this cop was ordered to take my gun by a State or Federal government in order to make sure I have no way to fight back against them. The only way I would shoot the cop is if he/she pulls out their weapon and tries to harm me or my family. This would only work if the intent of the cop was evil.

25-03-2018, 11:47 AM

Altoids Wrote: It's not like it would cripple criminals completely from getting guns but it would surely help reduce these issues.
Yes, criminals will always try to find ways to obtain new guns, but if the government were to take away weapons and were to cease the manufacturing of parts and guns altogether, it would become a bit harder for them to obtain them or the properparts to craft them. Slow them down if you will.

Will citizens be left unprotected? In terms of guns, yes. Will there still be killings? Yes, of course. Even if guns didn't exist at all, people would still get killed by other means. But I feel it would dramatically decrease the amount of killings and injuries that we accumulate from having guns available to the public.

This is what I'm talking about, If they can somehow reduce gun in the circulation maybe it would maybe decrease gun crimes in USA.

25-03-2018, 11:47 AM

Altoids Wrote: It's not like it would cripple criminals completely from getting guns but it would surely help reduce these issues.
Yes, criminals will always try to find ways to obtain new guns, but if the government were to take away weapons and were to cease the manufacturing of parts and guns altogether, it would become a bit harder for them to obtain them or the properparts to craft them. Slow them down if you will.

Will citizens be left unprotected? In terms of guns, yes. Will there still be killings? Yes, of course. Even if guns didn't exist at all, people would still get killed by other means. But I feel it would dramatically decrease the amount of killings and injuries that we accumulate from having guns available to the public.

But if there were no guns, anybody could break into a house knowing full well that they could harm that person. Not knowing if that person in the house has a gun or not stops a lot of criminals from breaking in. You can't deny someone the right to protect themself or their family from someone who intends to harm them.

25-03-2018, 11:45 AM

Aeux Wrote: Okay so this is different comparing the countries in .. America and Finland .

When you commit a crime, even the smallest one you're asked to show off your pockets and everything, the police officer will take it all and by the laws w/E you may get back you will but not the illegal items. and you're held in a small space for x amount of days until you commit the crime or they ask you to commit things that may never even been happened which is sick to the human nature.

In Finland the GOV can take your gun just by a snap o' fingers no matter if it's legal or illegal all they have to do is to check if you're a risk to the community - Being on drugs or alcohol is just enough. which could be pretty much the same as creating the cause to do things to control you without your own permission which feels damn bad.

The Police can't come to my house either without a search warrant to inspect what I might have in my apartment but if I look like a risk it doesn't take long for them to do so or maybe they even do it hidden from us so they just trace what's going on for real in the worlds. which doesn't sound honest at all that they can just create a problem which doesn't even exist.


The stuff I might write is quickly created from my mind and I write another language that I'm familiar with so I hope you understand my beliefs and what I'm trying to say.
I don't really do facts to - Please try to keep these texts as valid or invalid opinions by Aeux. Google is the tool that helps you to check if you like to play with Facts.


I've been skipping much of what you wrote I'll definitely check back on later with time.

Great thread, OP.

25-03-2018, 11:49 AM

Teratronic Wrote: The Bill of Rights exists so that each citizen has their rights protected. Unfortunately not every country, such as Finland as it sounds, has a document similar to America's. Like I said before, a cop can't search someone without probable cause. I would also like to say that you should not shoot a cop for trying to take your gun, depending on the circumstance. For example lets say this cop was ordered to take my gun by a State or Federal government in order to make sure I have no way to fight back against them. The only way I would shoot the cop is if he/she pulls out their weapon and tries to harm me or my family. This would only work if the intent of the cop was evil.

I'll read your posts soon please check this post #44 I edited just a few seconds ago.
https://nulledbb.com/thread-Serious-Chan...#pid637723

25-03-2018, 11:51 AM

Teratronic Wrote: But if there were no guns, anybody could break into a house knowing full well that they could harm that person. Not knowing if that person in the house has a gun or not stops a lot of criminals from breaking in. You can't deny someone the right to protect themself or their family from someone who intends to harm them.

Perfect <3 but this creates the problem that there is a fear which is real as this kind of things do happen but the mass-shootings made by a singular person creates the real problem with the guns as this kind of things should never happen.. Civils should not get Harmed.

and this is the thing you may not be quick enough to protect from with the gun you own as it's not because of the gun it's because of the person who owns the gun.

No thing can protect one from owning a gun because there isn't resources to surveillance every people on earth daily from minute to minute because not every gun got (if any) has a GPS chip which tells (who, the government? the gun owner?) where the gun is moving at this moment or where it is the next minute.

Protect your family and do not let them restrain.

25-03-2018, 11:45 AM

Aeux Wrote: Okay so this is different comparing the countries in .. America and Finland .

When you commit a crime, even the smallest one you're asked to show off your pockets and everything, the police officer will take it all and by the laws w/E you may get back you will but not the illegal items. and you're held in a small space for x amount of days until you commit the crime or they ask you to commit things that may never even been happened which is sick to the human nature.

In Finland the GOV can take your gun just by a snap o' fingers no matter if it's legal or illegal all they have to do is to check if you're a risk to the community - Being on drugs or alcohol is just enough. which could be pretty much the same as creating the cause to do things to control you without your own permission which feels damn bad.

The Police can't come to my house either without a search warrant to inspect what I might have in my apartment but if I look like a risk it doesn't take long for them to do so or maybe they even do it hidden from us so they just trace what's going on for real in the worlds. which doesn't sound honest at all that they can just create a problem which doesn't even exist.


The stuff I might write is quickly created from my mind and I write another language that I'm familiar with so I hope you understand my beliefs and what I'm trying to say.
I don't really do facts to - Please try to keep these texts as valid or invalid opinions by Aeux. Google is the tool that helps you to check if you like to play with Facts.


I've been skipping much of what you wrote I'll definitely check back on later with time.

Great thread, OP.

Thats no problem, I am enjoying this conversation. Facts aren't really (IMO) the parts that will change a persons mind in this day and age. In most of the US at least, invoking an emotional response is much more efficacious in swaying a person's belief.