Serious {Debate} Abortion isn't our Battle; The Life Is

In 1973, Roe v. Wade made it constitutionally unacceptable to not allow women to have the right to abortions, causing a sexual revolution. Today, over 300,000 unborn children are aborted every year, and the numbers are rising. A good majority of males take the side of "Pro-Lifers", or individuals who believe abortion should be illegal. Their reasoning could be because of religious backing, personal trauma from a loved one or significant other going through an abortion, or solely because they recognize the life that is being lost.

Here is my argument; when we are talking about abortion, it is absolutely 100% the women's body that is being discussed. Even though the child is within the mother and it has a life of it's own, the mother in this society should be the one t make the decision. The question is whether we see her acting upon her right as a morally correct thing or not. Men have no right to discuss abortion solely because they provide absolutely nothing during the pregnancy or the actual birth.

You may argue that because men provide the sperm, they have a say, but the actual truth lies within the fact that after men ejaculate, they don't necessarily worry about the child except for it's safety until birth of course. This is not to deter the idea that men are useless, but they aren't placing as much effort as a mother is.

What we men are supposed to recognize is that throughout history there has been the issue of being a human and being a person. If you look at the American government system, humans are simply humans, but people are humans with rights. When you are born and freed from the connection of your mother, you become a person while still remaining human. Because the child is attached to the mother, it is why the mother can make the decision of killing it.

But, our country has had a history by not representing individuals in need of rights. Before the 1920's, women were seen as "less" than men and were held down in societies for hundreds if not thousands of years within this world. Minorities were seen to hold no rights as well and were placed low within society itself. For the child, this is a human in need of rights, but is unable to since all of it is being placed upon the mother. Therefore, it's not the abortion we should be focusing on, but rather the fact it is in fact a life, so instead of pushing to end abortion, I push to give these children the same rights we possess; the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

What about you? Do you agree, or is there an aspect of this situation that you believe is utterly incorrect?

My take has always been would you rather end an unborn child's life, or have it be born into a world where their parents dontwant them. Death, or the ruining of two/threelives. I find that to be a pretty easy question to answer.

(Just realized this isn't about if abortion should be done or not)

To add, more on the topic, it's the mothers choice because 1. She's the one growing it 2. That birth and life will effect her more so than anyone else involved

05-02-2018, 08:14 AM

DMT Wrote: My take has always been would you rather end an unborn child's life, or have it be born into a world where their parents dontwant them. Death, or the ruining of two/threelives. I find that to be a pretty easy question to answer.

This is an issue within it's own terrain, but I'll give my brief view of it.

When it comes to answering "What if the parents don't want it" question, three answers come to mind in defense of it:

- There are many people who do want to adopt a child badly
- Their desire for it should have no affect on whether it's born or not
- They should have been more careful in the first place

For the adoption situation, I'm all for adopting children. The issue is the system which forces parents to pay literally over $250k-$800k to gain ownership of the child and pay state and legal fees. So while yes, you could tell me "Why don't they adopt kids who are already born? Those are the ones who need life, not the unborn ones", I'd simply argue that we should meet midway and fix our system to help both sides.

For the second answer, it's a question on ownership. Do the parents ultimately decide the fate, or does the child have rights that extend beyond a parent's dis-wanting of them within this world? I believe that by giving dominion of one's life over another, you are essentially making that object their property, and because we can all agree that this is in fact a life we are talking about (the question is whether they deserve rights or not), is it wrong to allow ownership over it? It's essentially slavery in a smaller mindset.

The third answer is more of a redundant and ignorant answer I'll admit, but it's one most commonly used. Should the couple have to stick with their decision of not making completely sure their birth control or contraceptives were working properly? Accidents happen of course. Or is the creation of human life an accident? And even when we deal with accidents likes if I'm driving and I sneeze and crash into another car, I can't just walk it off, I have to assume responsibility.

Abortion is murder it doesn't mater if its "unborn" you are basically killing your own kid.

05-02-2018, 08:07 PM

Sigex Wrote: Abortion is murder it doesn't mater if its "unborn" you are basically killing your own kid.

And what if the parents disown it or disregard it as their child? Does it then lose it's worth?
That is what we are trying to debate here.

07-02-2018, 03:55 AM

Ideology Wrote: And what if the parents disown it or disregard it as their child? Does it then lose it's worth?
That is what we are trying to debate here.

You're basically taking a life that could have been successful.

07-02-2018, 04:00 AM

Lakeey Wrote: You're basically taking a life that could have been successful.

Yes, but success isn't guaranteed and if we potentially ban all abortions, what would happen to the children with parents who never wanted them? If over 300,000 abortions are done every year, wouldn't that place tens of millions of kids at risk of being placed within abusive or unloving homes? There aren't even enough families within the United States who would potentially adopt a child, and other countries around the world face the same issue.

Are we just going to fight for their life, and once they're out, they're on their own?

07-02-2018, 04:10 AM

Ideology Wrote: Yes, but success isn't guaranteed and if we potentially ban all abortions, what would happen to the children with parents who never wanted them? If over 300,000 abortions are done every year, wouldn't that place tens of millions of kids at risk of being placed within abusive or unloving homes? There aren't even enough families within the United States who would potentially adopt a child, and other countries around the world face the same issue.

Are we just going to fight for their life, and once they're out, they're on their own?

Now from you saying that "tens of millions of kids at risk of being placed within abusive or unloving homes". Makes me agree with abortion. I'm not saying that all kids can solve their abusive situation but always try to get help and maybe go to CPS. You also have adoption as well. But, it does stop the pain from potentialkids going through abusive relationships.

07-02-2018, 04:13 AM

Lakeey Wrote: Now from you saying that "tens of millions of kids at risk of being placed within abusive or unloving homes". Makes me agree with abortion. I'm not saying that all kids can solve their abusive situation but always try to get help and maybe go to CPS. You also have adoption as well. But, it does stop the pain from potentialkids going through abusive relationships.

My comment was merely me playing Devil's Advocate since I do in fact believe what you originally stated, but there also needs to be the realization over 60% of the American population comes from a broken home already, yet that seems to only drive them further. Ultimately, it's a question on the life and whether is holds the same standards to the right to live as does everyone else and why. We can question it's ability to make contributions to the community, debate potential outcomes of the child's actions, and simply try to understands how far our primitive and collective human morals go, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to whether women have the ability to kill it, or does the child precede his/her mother's wants.

07-02-2018, 04:17 AM

Ideology Wrote: My comment was merely me playing Devil's Advocate since I do in fact believe what you originally stated, but there also needs to be the realization over 60% of the American population comes from a broken home already, yet that seems to only drive them further. Ultimately, it's a question on the life and whether is holds the same standards to the right to live as does everyone else and why. We can question it's ability to make contributions to the community, debate potential outcomes of the child's actions, and simply try to understands how far our primitive and collective human morals go, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to whether women have the ability to kill it, or does the child precede his/her mother's wants.

This is out of the blue, but I think most abortions come from rape, or the male did not pull out fast enough. Women, who were not ready for children are already getting impregnated at early ages. Parents forcing them to abort their child etc. Abortions 1/2 of the reasons (most of the time come from males) it's pretty fucked up to say that and I'm not proud of it either. Everyone should have the right to live. But I think everyone does get the chance to live through. In my personal belief, I believe that reincarnation is real. Everyone gets a chance to live. Abortions can balance out the population but at the same time, it's sad to see a child go. It's funny to me that I google abortion. I see that Ohio's Supreme Court is shutting down the last abortion center. My opinion I don't what people do with their child. As long they aren't in the early stage of living and getting abused. I feel like abortions help the adoption center as well. You don't have an overwhelming amount of kids and the more kids you have the more money it's put and eventually the adoption center is going to shut down. This is all just a theory though. I still don't know what's right though. It's a very confusing topic. It's wrong for killing a newborn but, at the same time benefits our society.