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How could we enforce real AI in gaming - using Amazon as trailblazer?

Submitted by neap, , Thread ID: 181226

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neap
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18-09-2020, 02:50 PM
This post was last modified: 18-09-2020, 02:52 PM by neap
#1
Hi community - let me reach out with a question: How can we nudge Amazon into developing and using a real AI NPC approach?

What do I envision?
Have a look at Open AI MMO:https://openai.com/blog/neural-mmo/
What you see is a MMO landscape that is habitated by agents (=NPCs). These agents do not have a decision treethat guides their behaviour, but constantly try to reach some basic goals in interaction with their environment and learn strategies to reach them.
That sounds abstract - but exactly with that approach e.g.AlphaGo was developed - a neural network that is about 50% better than the best human Go player today.
What does happen when these agents findchallenges? They learn and overcome - developing startegies that might be known to us - but maybe also are not yet known.

Example: The influx of other entities that wants to hunt you (lets name that entity "player") might lead to strategies as seen in nature today
  • cooperating with my peers as a group to hunt down the foe (e.g. wolfs)
  • go into hiding and just forage at night or in cover (e.g. foxes)
  • infiltrate the group of enimies and parasite on them (just google "Polyergus breviceps")
  • migrate to areas less dangerous
  • accept your losses and survive through fertility

The important thing is: All these strategies are shown in the above MMO not predefined by human developers, but a reaction to learning experience. New challenges, new strategies: Player building groups and getting to strong? You You will see NPCs that stalk a solo. Camp a spawn point. SURVIVE.
Couple that with advanced word generators such asGPT-3: Trading with and using players to do your dirty work for money is another valid survival strategy that will be discovered by the AI - and now one can give them the voice to request you to wipe out these annoying unicorns that always shit on your NPC lawn...


Why do I even want that?
Simply because PvP ultimatively only works wellin very specific scenarios - rarely Open World/MMOs. And PvE is quite often boring and lead to "hunt 10 rats" quests.
Real NPC AI will generate a constant thrill, servers that develop into totally different directions, adventures that are really unique.
And AI generated startegies that - make no mistake - WILL be far advanced to human behaviour or at least force us to really work together to survive in that world.
Image the first call to actions for allguilds of the world to band together to free a server that has gone rogue through AI deciding to rid itself from the players pest...


Why Amazon?
There are just three players in the AI market that could do it as the training of the models eats millions and the AI experts to set them up are challenging to get on the market:
Lets start with the two obvious:
  • Microsoft as proven with the Flight Simulator - using AIto create a wonder that let you experience the whole world in real time - including weather, flight control chats and positions. Now they post the SDK that will allow games in that "game" world - if that term still aplly to that mirror
  • Google is very advanced in AI - but its vision for games endsabout here



Amazon has the largest part of the cloud, a very advanced AI, and tries to get a grasp on games - with no success:
[*]They failed hard with Crucible
[*]The have a game engine that is in beta since 4 years and not really embraced by the community
[*]Now they look to become a publisher for others

For them to be successful in games, they woud have to create something new, something that generate excitement while proving for all who the leader is in AI today.

Whats in for Amazon?
Prove that you are the leading AI company - as they try withAWS
Prove that you have an infrastructure that handles models and game influxthat advanced
Make a lot of money through


[*]the game itself
[*]through reselling that AI models as after that there simply will no be another game on earth that will go back to decision trees and "kill 10 rats"
[*]through the publicity and emotions that self action NPCs and server world will create



Unfortunately, what we see is a quiteshiny, yet "10 rats" style MMO called New World.
No innovations, extremely dump NPC AI, scripted boringness, a world that feels about as real and dangerous as the pirates ofLegoland.


How do you influence a large company like that to act - before Microsoft is doing it?


Long wall of text - I am chewing on that idea since some time - any hint how I should move that forward to get their attention?





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RE: How could we enforce real AI in gaming - using Amazon as trailblazer?

ryuumakoto
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18-09-2020, 08:52 PM
#2
Honestly current state of affairs with ai is nothing but a tool. The way i see it - you can use ai to plug the holes in your world design. But never in your gameplay.

You use it as a tool - you feed it dataset, set its training model and let it shit out results that you want. The issue? it doesn't have any sort of creativity beyond the most mechanical application of it.
So naturally what you want is you want to apply it where it would make most sense.

RE: How could we enforce real AI in gaming - using Amazon as trailblazer?

identify25
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20-09-2020, 12:13 AM
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I think there's potential for it in making better 'bots', i.e. fake human players. But bots these days can already be pretty decent. For NPCs, you'll always want their behaviour to be fun for the player, which generally isn't the same as realistic.

It'll be interesting to see how a machine-learned AI player plays a game, though. I expect they'll find new techniques, which human players will them start trying to copy.

You do get insane behaviour from this approach. I remember reading about a game-learning AI who's goal was to evolve towards something that survived longer than older versions. One approach it learned to overwhelm the controls, causing the game to hang and the time-to-death to become massive. Creative solutions :D

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