osu! moments

13-11-2016, 11:57 AM

spenceroz Wrote: never played osu before seems very hard like brain based

Then you've never seen a Japanese rhythm game before.


osu! doesn't compare to high-level Bemani games. Sure, it still takes rhythm and lots of skill to be good at the game, but there are a few things that osu! lacks compared to these games.

• The timing windows on Bemani games are about 3.5-5 times more narrow than osu! timings are.
  
• You generally have a lot more to do in Bemani gamesthan pressing two buttons and tracking with a mouse/tablet.
  
• With how they are marketed and set up in-game, Bemani games are geared almost solely to hardcore Japanese arcade enthusiasts and rhythm game enthusiasts.
  
• Bemani games are very hard to get a hold of. Even the controllers can cost more than you'd ever spend on donating to osu!. Also, the newer games MUST be played online and at an approved location from Konami.
  
• Large amounts of money in prize pools for KAC, so large incentives to get good at the game. There's more than just fame here.
  

23-11-2016, 07:37 PM

fdigl Wrote: Then you've never seen a Japanese rhythm game before.

osu! doesn't compare to high-level Bemani games. Sure, it still takes rhythm and lots of skill to be good at the game, but there are a few things that osu! lacks compared to these games.

• The timing windows on Bemani games are about 3.5-5 times more narrow than osu! timings are.
  
• You generally have a lot more to do in Bemani gamesthan pressing two buttons and tracking with a mouse/tablet.
  
• With how they are marketed and set up in-game, Bemani games are geared almost solely to hardcore Japanese arcade enthusiasts and rhythm game enthusiasts.
  
• Bemani games are very hard to get a hold of. Even the controllers can cost more than you'd ever spend on donating to osu!. Also, the newer games MUST be played online and at an approved location from Konami.
  
• Large amounts of money in prize pools for KAC, so large incentives to get good at the game. There's more than just fame here.
  

I wouldn't say you can't compare top ranking osu! gameplay to Bemani gameplay.
Especially considering how osu! is getting faster and harder rapidly, depends on the gamemode too though.

23-11-2016, 08:03 PM

Faded Wrote: I wouldn't say you can't compare top ranking osu! gameplay to Bemani gameplay.
Especially considering how osu! is getting faster and harder rapidly, depends on the gamemode too though.

I won't deny that it is, but right now it's not there yet. Not that I'm a top player, but when you look at it objectively Bemani games are built to be competitive and hardcore, whereas osu! can be very welcoming to new players. Bemani games on the other hand are very daunting and hard to get into. If you don't know Japanese, that's a barrier to entry. Even getting around the menus could be difficult for a lot of people. Time and time again I see people coming to these machines and giving up mid-tutorial. Even if they get past the tutorial, the easiest songs are very challenging and it is very easy to fail. And when you do fail, you don't get any retries or lives. You get three songs per credit in Bemani games (usually). If you fail one, it's over.

It doesn't help that the games lock difficulty until you play the highest difficulty available. For instance, in SDVX, you can't play songs above level 7 at first. Once you beat a level 7 song, you unlock up to level 10 (I think). Once you beat that, you can play any difficulty song that's unlocked on the machine if you're playing on the guest account. Yes, you have to unlock songs with in-game credits you earn. Of course, the whole difficulty locking thing ends once you end that playthrough. So when you insert more credits, you have to do it all over again. If you pay more to get an eAMUSEMENT pass, your stats are saved online and your progress is tracked (songs stay unlocked, etc). The difficulty lock is still there, songs unlocked starts from scratch as your account is separate from the guest account, and you have to do skill analyzer sets to unlock higher difficulties.

In osu!, the tutorial is very welcoming and easy to understand. The game is multilingual, and there are no difficulty or song unlocks. You just download whatever you want. You also have the ability to change skins. You could even make your own maps. That's where osu! shines. osu! is built to run on anyone's machine, and has calibrations for those who have visual/audible/input latency. Bemani games are only made to run on official machines at approved locations. And you have to pay to play, even through emulations. osu! is completely free to play.From this perspective, it doesn't compare. In terms of potential difficulty, it will get there in time. All of the osu! gametypes have Japanese rhythm game origins, so they all have the potential to become just as difficult.

23-11-2016, 08:15 PM

fdigl Wrote: I won't deny that it is, but right now it's not there yet. Not that I'm a top player, but when you look at it objectively Bemani games are built to be competitive and hardcore, whereas osu! can be very welcoming to new players. Bemani games on the other hand are very daunting and hard to get into. If you don't know Japanese, that's a barrier to entry. Even getting around the menus could be difficult for a lot of people. Time and time again I see people coming to these machines and giving up mid-tutorial. Even if they get past the tutorial, the easiest songs are very challenging and it is very easy to fail. And when you do fail, you don't get any retries or lives. You get three songs per credit in Bemani games (usually). If you fail one, it's over.

It doesn't help that the games lock difficulty until you play the highest difficulty available. For instance, in SDVX, you can't play songs above level 7 at first. Once you beat a level 7 song, you unlock up to level 10 (I think). Once you beat that, you can play any difficulty song that's unlocked on the machine if you're playing on the guest account. Yes, you have to unlock songs with in-game credits you earn. Of course, the whole difficulty locking thing ends once you end that playthrough. So when you insert more credits, you have to do it all over again. If you pay more to get an eAMUSEMENT pass, your stats are saved online and your progress is tracked (songs stay unlocked, etc). The difficulty lock is still there, songs unlocked starts from scratch as your account is separate from the guest account, and you have to do skill analyzer sets to unlock higher difficulties.

In osu!, the tutorial is very welcoming and easy to understand. The game is multilingual, and there are no difficulty or song unlocks. You just download whatever you want. You also have the ability to change skins. You could even make your own maps. That's where osu! shines. osu! is built to run on anyone's machine, and has calibrations for those who have visual/audible/input latency. Bemani games are only made to run on official machines at approved locations. And you have to pay to play, even through emulations. osu! is completely free to play.From this perspective, it doesn't compare. In terms of potential difficulty, it will get there in time. All of the osu! gametypes have Japanese rhythm game origins, so they all have the potential to become just as difficult.

Bemani games not being welcoming, being hard to get into and having a language barrier doesn't make it harder nor better in any way. Kinda dumb actually.
Don't see how getting through menus makes the gameplay more difficult or better either.
Also you have to remember that being introduced to completely new controls, limited time(tries) just makes it harder to play, but not the gameplay itself. (same with limiting to only official bemani machines)

The difficulty lock completely pointless too, unless you'd have to complete a certain song to unlock another one.
Gives you the chance to get completely stuck on one song and not being able to move forward at all, so called making you force through it (though again, not moving forward limits your potential, so that's also kinda meh).

same stuff u already said (welcoming .. etc)

Also saying that osu! runs well on multiple systems.. yeah no lol.

Calibrations have to obviously be there, since like you said yourself, it isn't run on an official machine therefore not needed.
And now since were here, limiting the potential of people who could be playing the game is more harmful to it than anything.

ehh covered most stuff here too


Wrote it pretty sloppy, might be a bit confusing. I'm too lazy and too tired for this tbh

23-11-2016, 09:10 PM

Faded Wrote: Bemani games not being welcoming, being hard to get into and having a language barrier doesn't make it harder nor better in any way. Kinda dumb actually.
Don't see how getting through menus makes the gameplay more difficult or better either.
Also you have to remember that being introduced to completely new controls, limited time(tries) just makes it harder to play, but not the gameplay itself. (same with limiting to only official bemani machines)

The difficulty lock completely pointless too, unless you'd have to complete a certain song to unlock another one.
Gives you the chance to get completely stuck on one song and not being able to move forward at all, so called making you force through it (though again, not moving forward limits your potential, so that's also kinda meh).

same stuff u already said (welcoming .. etc)

Also saying that osu! runs well on multiple systems.. yeah no lol.

Calibrations have to obviously be there, since like you said yourself, it isn't run on an official machine therefore not needed.
And now since were here, limiting the potential of people who could be playing the game is more harmful to it than anything.

ehh covered most stuff here too


Wrote it pretty sloppy, might be a bit confusing. I'm too lazy and too tired for this tbh

I'm not saying it's better, I'm saying it's more... intimidating I think?

Well, you're also right that osu!doesn't always run well, but the team tries to have the game run onas many machinesas possible. Bemani games are not that at all.



This whole thing wasn't meant to say Bemani games are better :x

23-11-2016, 09:18 PM

fdigl Wrote: I'm not saying it's better, I'm saying it's more... intimidating I think?

Well, you're also right that osu!doesn't always run well, but the team tries to have the game run onas many machinesas possible. Bemani games are not that at all.



This whole thing wasn't meant to say Bemani games are better :x

Well yeah, you were saying Bemani games are more difficult but most of it was just making the game harder to play, not the gameplay itself.
Though I do agree they are really hard, like thousands of hours pro player hard.

23-11-2016, 09:23 PM

Faded Wrote: Well yeah, you were saying Bemani games are more difficult but most of it was just making the game harder to play, not the gameplay itself.
Though I do agree they are really hard, like thousands of hours pro player hard.

It also costs a lot, as it's pay-per-play arcade style.